Dan ([info]poserorprophet) wrote,
@ 2007-09-06 15:30:00
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Understandings of Power (why Christians should avoid being in the government)
[Update: After adding some consideration of the term 'power-as-appeal', I have substituted the term 'power-as-invitation' for the previously used term 'power-as-persuasion'.]

Thesis 1. Following the examples of Jesus and Paul, Christians should not seek to wield 'power-as-force' over those who are not members of the Church.

This thesis requires some explanation.

(1a) What do I mean by the expression 'power-as-force'? By using that expression I am referring to power that is exercised in such a way that it leaves those on whom it acts no alternative but to comply or be punished -- it forces compliance. Power-as-force is the form of power that is exercised by the State through the military, the police, the courts, the prisons, the hospitals, and all the other institutions that discipline and punish the general population (I am, of course, indebted to Foucault in this regard). Power-as-force says to a person: "You must do this," or "You cannot do that" and "If you do 'this', then we will imprison you" or "If you do 'that', then we will hospitalize you." Significantly, power-as-force operates on people regardless of their belief-systems. You do not need to ascribe to the fundamental beliefs of the system of power-as-force, you simply must obey or face the consequences.

(1b) When we look to the example of Jesus, we discover that this is precisely the form of power that he rejected. Of course, Jesus did exercise power-as-force over some things:
-nature
-sickness
-demons
-death
-some property, including animals (the Temple incident!)
However, the key thing to realise is that Jesus never exercised power-as-force over any people outside of the community of discipleship. It is only within the community of disciples that Jesus exercises a minimal form of power-as-force (by issuing commands that require obedience).

(1c) We see the same thing in the letters of Paul. Paul is willing to issue commands, and expects obedience from his churches. But he thinks it is a mistake to try and extend that power-as-force outside of the community of faith. Thus, he writes:

I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people -- not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral... What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside (cf. 1 Cor 5).

Paul is not interested in judging those outside of the Church, nor is he interested in holding them to certain standards of behaviour. He is, however, very much interested in engaging in those practices within the community of faith.

Thesis 2. Therefore, Christians should seek change within the world through the Church, which practices 'power-as-invitation', not through the government which practices power-as-force.

Again some explanation is required.

(2a) What do I mean by the expression 'power-as-invitation'? I do not mean the pursuit of 'seeker-sensitive' church models, nor do I mean the ongoing fascination with presenting a 'relevant' form of Christianity. Rather, I understand power-as-invitation to be what comes when the Church models an alternate way of sharing life together. The Johannine material captures this well -- we will be known, within the world, by the love that we have for one another (this emphasis also appears in the Synoptics and in the Pauline material). Of course, that love is to be an overflowing love, and just as we are to be known for how we love one another, we are also to be known for how we love the 'poor', and even for how we love our 'enemies'. Such a way of sharing life together does not exercise power-as-force, but it does exercise power-as-invitation, because it is open to others and will appeal to many. Indeed, the term 'power-as-appeal' might be an even better term for this sort of power, as the word 'appeal' implies attractiveness (i.e. "I find that way of life to be very appealing") but also implies the sort of weakness that is found in begging (i.e. "I appeal to you as Christians").

(2b) Therefore, rather than imposing demands upon those outside the community of faith (which is precisely what the government does when, for example, it demands that pacifist pay taxes -- taxes that will help to fund the war effort), the Church issues an invitation to those outside. Governments demand, the Church invites.

(2c) Thus, we see why Christian involvement in the government is, despite good intentions, and despite whatever positive impact it might have, largely a mistake -- a mistake that, IMHO, results from a misunderstanding of how Christians are to relate to power. Simply stated: the government operates by using a form of power that is denied to Christian engagement with those outside the Church, and it is impossible to participate within government without accepting this underlying power structure.


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[info]yougavemehope
2007-09-06 11:49 pm UTC (link)
Definitely agree. I think it's unfortunate that a lot of us in the church spend a lot of time trying to act through government and law - censor this, ban that - in order to force those outside of the church to comply with our morality. I guess it's probably closely tied to patriotism; in Canada and especially the USA a lot of Christians have an understanding that this country is God's country, founded on religious values and whatnot. So instead of being neighbours to homosexuals who are rejected by society, we're trying to force a law that prevents them from getting married.

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[info]harambee78
2007-09-07 02:16 am UTC (link)
I like Greg Boyd's terms here. He often contrasts "power over" (by law and force) with "power under" (via servanthood and love). Is it possible to be a Christian serving in government? Yes, and there may even be some areas of government where there is little direct conflict (some aspects of social work, e.g.). But though one might be able to call the activities of government "good" insofar as they preserve peace and social order (as Paul suggests) one cannot ever call them "Christian" precisely because by their nature they are "power over" structures.

good post.

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[info]apdraper2000
2007-09-07 03:49 am UTC (link)
I may be insufficiently devout in this regard, but I tend to judge my faith by my intuitions at least as much as I judge my intuitions by my faith.

I think your reasoning, based on Scripture, is sound - but intuitively I sense that the conclusion that Christians should avoid political power is screwy. You may be right - but I have to suspect that either I have misunderstood your conclusion, or you are mistaken, or Christianity as a whole is moot.

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[info]poserorprophet
2007-09-07 07:36 am UTC (link)
Hey apd,

I have learned to be equally suspicious of both my faith and my intuitions. Precisely because they are mine, both can end up being culturally-conditioned and self-serving.

I don't know if you have misunderstood me or not (three sentences isn't a lot to go on!), but maybe you are thinking that by saying that Christians should stay out of government I am saying that Christians should not be involved in "politics"? This, in fact, is not what I am saying, so hopefully this eases your fears that I have made Christianity "moot." Christian life together (i.e. the Church) is a politics (I think my conclusion may appear "screwy" to you because most of us have not been taught how to imagine the Church in this way).

Of course, I could still be mistaken.

Grace and peace,

Dan

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[info]apdraper2000
2007-09-07 07:49 pm UTC (link)
Dan,

I think I understand the notion that being a Christian (that is, being part of the Church) is political. After all, even if you are part of a separatist community (like the Amish?) to separate from the mainstream is a political act. Or if you are a public classroom teacher (I would consider that a good example of working for the government while remaining mostly untainted by power-as-force), that obviously makes you a significant actor in the shared polis.

The scenario that troubles me is a representative democracy like the States that has Christian citizens but no Christian legislators or police officers or military leaders. Is this outcome not implied by the conclusions you draw? That's where I need clarification.

Regarding your first sentence: is there a way beyond cultural conditioning and serving the self? or is your "suspicious" hermeneutic always operating?

yrs

Andrew

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[info]poserorprophet
2007-09-10 12:01 am UTC (link)
Hey Andrew,

I suppose that I am less bothered by the idea of a State that doesn't have Christian legislators, police officers, or military leaders (I would argue that at least the third example is an oxymoron). But then I'm also not bothered by a ghetto free of Christian drug dealers, pimps, and gang-bangers.

Regardless of that analogy (an analogy that seems to bother a good many people!), what business of ours is to to run the world? Instead, let's focus on having the Church run in such a way that she becomes a life-giving alternative to a world that still groans under Powers that operate in the service of Death.

As for moving beyond cultural conditioning and service of the self, yes, I think there are ways of doing that. Although, such a movement occurs over time and in bits and pieces, so I think we should be cautious of ever coming to the place where we say "Yes, now I see perfectly clearly" or "Yes, now I am acting purely out of love of God and love of others." So what are some of those ways? Well, submitting to things outside of oneself is a good start. I would suggest that granting Scripture, the Church, and the Poor an authority of oneself can go a long way to confronting, and removing, cultural conditioning and service of the self. Consequently, I am suspicious but I am also hopeful.

Grace and peace,

Dan

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-07 04:47 am UTC (link)
One concern about how Christianity becomes an opt-in, self-judging community: it encourages the "my way or the highway" mentality that is having such a poisonous effect on the modern church. Indeed, the mentality that has added poison to the Church since day one.

Anyone can join the Church. It is a matter of faith and belief. But a necessary part of Church life is disagreement, over matters theological, financial, personal, etc. When it comes to these disagreements, the Church either has to exercise power-as-force over it members (through hierarchy, majority rule, etc.) or force out its members.

Don't try to explain away the power-as-force aspects of Paul's many, many diatribes across his letters, against circumcision especially. Once the Church becomes an institution, power-as-force becomes an unavoidable reality within its ranks. All we can do is recognize its reality and try to minimize it and its damage.

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[info]poserorprophet
2007-09-07 07:21 am UTC (link)
Hey Anon,

I went over my post a few times and still can't help but wonder about your comment.

You see, I never tried to "explain away" the power-as-force that we find in Paul (or Jesus). In fact, I rather explicitly argue that Paul (and Jesus) both exercise power-as-force over people within the community of faith -- but, as far as people are concerned, they only exercise power-as-force within that context. For Christians, the exercise of power-as-force is solely an intra-Church operation (and even then I would want to argue that it should be exercised very differently than it is exercised by other institutions).

Hopefully that clears things up. Grace and peace,

Dan

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[info]prosthesis_m
2007-09-07 07:56 am UTC (link)
Could you explain why power-as-force is legitimate within the community of faith but not within the community of citizens of a state? To put that question another way, I am not only a Christian, I am also a citizen, son, a brother, an employee, etc. - in short, I'm a member of a number of different communities and there are a number of different "power relations" within those communities. You seem to be suggesting that power-as-force is only legitimate in my Church community, but not the others. I'm not sure I agree with that - e.g., I think power-as-force can be legitimate between parent and child or between employer and employee.

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-07 12:41 pm UTC (link)
So, what about other 'power positions'? I wonder if following this logic there are other occupations that you would consider unacceptable.

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[info]poserorprophet
2007-09-10 12:05 am UTC (link)
Hey Anon,

I agree that this thinking does apply elsewhere. Indeed, I would apply my criticisms of the government to a good many (most?) social service agencies that I have encountered (and even worked for). The Church is the alternative to both the government and the social service agency.

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Power-as-force in church
(Anonymous)
2007-09-07 03:37 pm UTC (link)
Great post, I agree with your point. (And I also would like to see christians avoid others similar positions of power, for example being boss in many or most cases.)
But I was a bit surprised of your arguing for power-as-force in the church. As I see it, Paul did not use this kind of power, he even dismisses it (2 Kor 1:24), and I think that Jesus (Mk 10) and 1 Pet 5 does it too. Decisions and changes in the church should be made by letting the Spirit make us agree (consensus), and if this does not happen, we have to accept each other anyway. Teachers and others who want to influence others have to do this by example, teaching etc, but not by force. No hierarchical rule and no majority rule in the church, as I see it. Have I misunderstood?(JOnas Lundstrom, www.alternativ.info.se)

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-07 04:15 pm UTC (link)
Hey Dan I'm full on board with what you are saying here.

Two thoughts though.

1. You terms 'power' and 'persuasion' i feel are very similiar to the ways that i was using 'leadership' and 'influence' in our conversations before. Can you explain the difference as you see it?

2. Would a pastor refusing to marry two men be considered power by force? With your explanation I can see how it would be. Would that pastor be punishing these two by not giving them a fair right to be married?

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(Anonymous)
2007-09-08 03:43 pm UTC (link)
sorry that comment above was from me (Nathan Colquhoun)
the two thoughts.

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[info]poserorprophet
2007-09-09 11:45 pm UTC (link)
Hey Nathan,

(1) You're right "persuasion" is a bad word choice, as it suggests things like manipulation and ulterior motivation. I have since changed the wording of my post to power-as-invitation. Again, I see this as different than "influence" because the invitation still issues from a place of cruciform missionality and service. I would continue to argue that "influence" is to "leadership" what "discipline" is to "punishment" in Foucault's writing (I highly recommend Discipline and Punish, if you haven't read it already).

(2) It all depends on where you fall in the discussion on gay marriage, and the discussion of rights. I tend to think that Christians should support gay marriage -- but I do not think this because of contemporary notions about "human rights." For me the issue is not whether or not pastors should be marrying gay couples (I think that they should) but whether or not pastors should be marrying couples who are outside of the Church (this seems much more problematical to me -- and brings us back to the issue of boundaries around the sacraments).

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[info]itsmypulp.wordpress.com
2007-09-08 01:02 pm UTC (link)
I agree with you insofar as you're talking about Christians passing legislation that would essentially criminalize people for taking a path contrary to the Christian path. Public policy must be based on values that every citizen can assent to. Therefore it must arise from "secular" reasoning, and not from special revelation vouchsafed to a particular religion.

But let me respond here to a comment you made on an earlier post:
"Crucifixion" is intrinsic to all "worldly" governments, but is extrinsic to the Church.

That's a convenient little dichotomy you establish. The Church sometimes crucifies people and sometimes benefits people. So does the "worldly" government. But crucifixion is extrinsic to one institution and intrinsic to the other.

Bullshit. This is mere ideology, not a reasoned position. This is precisely what I was arguing on the previous post, the comment to which you were responding. You define the Church to suit your ideological position, and define the state to suit your ideological position.

But they both commit the same acts, for good or ill. So the claim that crucifixion is extrinsic in the case of the Church — that's just an expression of your faith. And the claim that benefaction is extrinsic to the state — that also is an expression of your uncharitable ideology.

I think I'll respond with some theses of my own on Emerging from Babel.
http://emergingfrombabel.blogspot.com/

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[info]ericdarylmeyer.wordpress.com
2007-09-08 09:08 pm UTC (link)
Though, ultimately I'm not in the least inclined to agree with the direction of Dan's theses, I'll throw up one point in support of his intrinsic//extrinsic distinction.

I imagine that most of us, if we were to sit down for a half an hour or so and try to cook up a phrase that summarized the purpose of government, its basic function, we'd come up with something like the following. Government is to preserve and protect the life of its citizens and provide space for thier flourishing.

At bottom, that is a self-interested, or at least self-preserving mission. A responsible government is "intrinsically" self-interested.

The church is the community founded and sent forward in God's self-giving love. If the crucifixion and resurrection are the central identity-giving events in the church's life then "self-preservation" simply isn't in the church's DNA. Unfortunately, the reality of that statement is much easier to assert abstractly than empirically. So... "saving our own skin" is not an intrinsic part of being the church, and opens us up to the possibility of self-giving in ways/places/times/extents that are impossible and absurd for the government.

Where I take issue with Dan, however, is that a Christian can't operate in both communities. That a Christian committed to self-giving love can't, in part, express that through civil service... but that's another conversation...

Thanks,

Eric

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power-as-persuasion or example within government
(Anonymous)
2007-09-09 06:30 am UTC (link)
Hey, long time since I posted on your blog.

While I agree in the same manner stated above that Government should not legislate according to the Christian path or belief system, I still have one question.

In light of previous posts regarding the 'corruption' (can i say?) or misdirection of the criminal justice system and/or some government bodies, if we don't have Christians living out power-as-persuasion through their influence or maybe even 'power' INSIDE these government bodies how will Christians be able to cause real change?

Maybe thats taking it a bit far to say that change won't happen, but surely a Christian person acting in these government bodies will be able to 'persuade' the force of the WHOLE institution (rather than his individual force) in a manner more beneficial to society? This Christian, as I stated above would not actively vouch for legislation specific to the church community, ie sexual morality etc... but rather would do his/her best to legislate fairly and in a loving manner that helps to bring about positive change in these institutions?


Am i crazy? is this simply impossible, and that position will always contradict who the Christian is?

- Stephen Edwards

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